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1970 Neun vierzehn
I hope youz guys don't kick me outta this forum for this, but.....

As I'm about to embark on a major refurbishment/restoration/refreshening of my '70/4, I'm experiencing "analysis paralysis". To wit, how much time, money and effort to expend on the pursuit of perfection? A brand new, complete floor pan is a given, a "must". The exterior paint and metal are surprisingly good, considering that the last time rust was encountered was in 1979, and at that point it was cut out and repaired. Most of the exterior paint, though over 30 years old now, still looks pretty good. Regardless, I'm also going to have the exterior gone down to bare metal, fix any problems that manifest themselves, and have a complete repaint of the existing, original color

Now here's were it gets muddy. I'm going to have the engine compartment taken care of, mechanically and cosmetically. But where to draw the line? For instance, the original oil bath air cleaner is all there, including the red printing on the top, but that unit isn't perfect, but it is original. Similarly, the grey intake runners are dingy and can be cleaned, but will never have the beautiful appearance of freshly painted, restored ones. The inside of the front and rear trunks are solid and rust free but have their share of nicks, scratches, a tire stain(front), and scuffs from thirty plus years of road trips and vacations. I've seen the underside of front and rear trunk lids finished to breathtaking mirror finishes, and my original finished lids were never painted from the factory to that standard. Once again, the bottom of these lids are original. A previous thread on this forum concerns the area around the fuel tank. Once again, I have a nice original finish with a few minor scratches...repaint or not?

Our good friend Pat Garvey would no doubt admonish me for not re-doing everything, but when I see a scuff mark in the rear trunk from our trip to Aspen in 1978, or the scratch on the inner fender well by the fuel filler from our trip to Florida in '76, I see this car as part of my family, surely as I appreciate the lines and wrinkles on my wife's face that I've helped put there these past 37 years. These small blemishes show the car's personality and use and are all on original surfaces, paint and finishes.

Pat, feel free to comment for our fellow members, though I know what your recommendation will be.

I'm not trying for a PCA Parade win here, but a car that presents itself as it would look after about 1-2 years use from new. I'm afraid if I seek perfection, I'll be afraid to drive it for fear of the gravel, mud and debris on the road. Also, eliminating all signs of use remove its personality and consign it to museum status.

Sorry to be so long-winded, but I'd appreciate hearing from my fellow forum members. BTW, when this car is finished, it's not going to be sold. We've had this for 30+ years, and it's like one of the family. (Pat, you can relate to that).
Porsche Rescue
I think you have answered your own questions. Do what needs to be done but don't go so far that the car loses its character and becomes undriveable for fear of adding the next blemish. Clean the trunks and call it good. Don't destroy the history of the car.
Bleyseng
agree.gif

A original car (preserved) is always more interesting to me than a high dollar $$$$$ perfect restoration (just means you can spend money).
Jeff Bowlsby
agree.gif

Its only original once, but some of the best cars at Parade are not better-than-perfect restorations, they are the cars with a patina evidencing of many memories, even high milage. There is always a place for a car with 0 miles in pristine condition, but those are very few and far between. Let it express itself and don't try to make it something its not.
davep
I'll go along with that view also. While totally refinishing or replacing every part can have its place, I believe that well preserved parts are more important. How else will we have references to factory original fit and finish if we none left.
Pat Garvey
QUOTE (1970 Neun vierzehn @ Oct 31 2006, 12:56 PM) *
I hope youz guys don't kick me outta this forum for this, but.....

As I'm about to embark on a major refurbishment/restoration/refreshening of my '70/4, I'm experiencing "analysis paralysis". To wit, how much time, money and effort to expend on the pursuit of perfection? A brand new, complete floor pan is a given, a "must". The exterior paint and metal are surprisingly good, considering that the last time rust was encountered was in 1979, and at that point it was cut out and repaired. Most of the exterior paint, though over 30 years old now, still looks pretty good. Regardless, I'm also going to have the exterior gone down to bare metal, fix any problems that manifest themselves, and have a complete repaint of the existing, original color

Now here's were it gets muddy. I'm going to have the engine compartment taken care of, mechanically and cosmetically. But where to draw the line? For instance, the original oil bath air cleaner is all there, including the red printing on the top, but that unit isn't perfect, but it is original. Similarly, the grey intake runners are dingy and can be cleaned, but will never have the beautiful appearance of freshly painted, restored ones. The inside of the front and rear trunks are solid and rust free but have their share of nicks, scratches, a tire stain(front), and scuffs from thirty plus years of road trips and vacations. I've seen the underside of front and rear trunk lids finished to breathtaking mirror finishes, and my original finished lids were never painted from the factory to that standard. Once again, the bottom of these lids are original. A previous thread on this forum concerns the area around the fuel tank. Once again, I have a nice original finish with a few minor scratches...repaint or not?

Our good friend Pat Garvey would no doubt admonish me for not re-doing everything, but when I see a scuff mark in the rear trunk from our trip to Aspen in 1978, or the scratch on the inner fender well by the fuel filler from our trip to Florida in '76, I see this car as part of my family, surely as I appreciate the lines and wrinkles on my wife's face that I've helped put there these past 37 years. These small blemishes show the car's personality and use and are all on original surfaces, paint and finishes.

Pat, feel free to comment for our fellow members, though I know what your recommendation will be.

I'm not trying for a PCA Parade win here, but a car that presents itself as it would look after about 1-2 years use from new. I'm afraid if I seek perfection, I'll be afraid to drive it for fear of the gravel, mud and debris on the road. Also, eliminating all signs of use remove its personality and consign it to museum status.

Sorry to be so long-winded, but I'd appreciate hearing from my fellow forum members. BTW, when this car is finished, it's not going to be sold. We've had this for 30+ years, and it's like one of the family. (Pat, you can relate to that).

Well, you had to know this was coming smile.gif , but may be suprised by some of my comments.

Number one - it's your car. If you want to maintain some of its nuances because you're sentimental (and you are OH so sentimental), so what - leave 'em alone. As you said, you're not selling the car, so perfection doesn't sound necessary. You like the scratch on the inner fender well, leave it. Ok, with the tire stain? (almost everyone has it), leave it.

I also don't recommend painting the insides of the lids, unless they're a mess. You're right about the factory finish & if painted it will probably be too glossy. Besides, you can save some money there. Speaking of paint....when I had mine redone in '79 I recognized that 914's did not have the paint of a 911. They did have a very minor degree of orangepeel to the finish. Since the paint on my engine lid was perfect I asked them not to repaint it, but to use its finish as a guideline for the rest of the car. They did it perfectly and, to this day, you still can see no diff from the engine lid to the other panels in finish or shade - and it's a red car! My 2 cents.

Engine compartment - you said you are going to have it "taken care of". Does that mean redoing the sheetmetal & painted compartment areas? Hope so. Air cleaner - if it's not rusty, work on it by hand - keep the script if at all possible. Intake runners can be addressed with the motor in the car, though I would highly recommend changing the connecting hoses. If you're doing that, that's when to go after cleaning/refinishing the runners - they are pretty easy to remove. They didn't have the most beautiful finish on them to start with.

So see, I'm not such a bad guy afterall! Make it what you're most comfortable with. But, however you redo it, you are going to shed tears when the first rock gets you, or when you drop something on it that makes a scratch or small chip. So, even if you try to make it "perfection", it won't stay that forever.

My next 914 will be somwhat less anal than the current one, so I can feel free to enjoy it more.
Thomas J Bliznik
Hi Guys,

It's been a long time since I posted. Just taking a little time off.

Just wanted to add my 2-cents worth. I believe the most beautiful 914's are original ones. They are only original once & have a timeless patina that can't be duplicated. When my 914 was restored I was obsessed with every little speck of dust. Now after (8) years it has a nice patina & I don't get upset with the small stuff. I am now enjoying my 914 knowing all I have to do is spend 4-5 weeks of heavy duty touch-up if I want to show the car. Having said this, my advise "do what your comfortable with". Build it for yourself & screw the concourse weenies. I also recommend minor modifications for added enjoyment. The stress of building a show winning restored car is not worth it. Build it to a high 95% standard & forget building the 100 point car. It's the 914 people that count. They become lifelong friends.

Tom
Pat Garvey
QUOTE (Thomas J Bliznik @ Nov 4 2006, 12:30 PM) *
Hi Guys,

It's been a long time since I posted. Just taking a little time off.

Just wanted to add my 2-cents worth. I believe the most beautiful 914's are original ones. They are only original once & have a timeless patina that can't be duplicated. When my 914 was restored I was obsessed with every little speck of dust. Now after (8) years it has a nice patina & I don't get upset with the small stuff. I am now enjoying my 914 knowing all I have to do is spend 4-5 weeks of heavy duty touch-up if I want to show the car. Having said this, my advise "do what your comfortable with". Build it for yourself & screw the concourse weenies. I also recommend minor modifications for added enjoyment. The stress of building a show winning restored car is not worth it. Build it to a high 95% standard & forget building the 100 point car. It's the 914 people that count. They become lifelong friends.

Tom


Hey Tom!

Long time no hear. Missed you & your input. Hope you can stop by from time-to-time & impart your wisdom!

Can't say I totally agree w/your CW "screwing" but then, this IS a democracy!
Pat
Pat Garvey
QUOTE (1970 Neun vierzehn @ Oct 31 2006, 12:56 PM) *
I hope youz guys don't kick me outta this forum for this, but.....

As I'm about to embark on a major refurbishment/restoration/refreshening of my '70/4, I'm experiencing "analysis paralysis". To wit, how much time, money and effort to expend on the pursuit of perfection? A brand new, complete floor pan is a given, a "must". The exterior paint and metal are surprisingly good, considering that the last time rust was encountered was in 1979, and at that point it was cut out and repaired. Most of the exterior paint, though over 30 years old now, still looks pretty good. Regardless, I'm also going to have the exterior gone down to bare metal, fix any problems that manifest themselves, and have a complete repaint of the existing, original color

Now here's were it gets muddy. I'm going to have the engine compartment taken care of, mechanically and cosmetically. But where to draw the line? For instance, the original oil bath air cleaner is all there, including the red printing on the top, but that unit isn't perfect, but it is original. Similarly, the grey intake runners are dingy and can be cleaned, but will never have the beautiful appearance of freshly painted, restored ones. The inside of the front and rear trunks are solid and rust free but have their share of nicks, scratches, a tire stain(front), and scuffs from thirty plus years of road trips and vacations. I've seen the underside of front and rear trunk lids finished to breathtaking mirror finishes, and my original finished lids were never painted from the factory to that standard. Once again, the bottom of these lids are original. A previous thread on this forum concerns the area around the fuel tank. Once again, I have a nice original finish with a few minor scratches...repaint or not?

Our good friend Pat Garvey would no doubt admonish me for not re-doing everything, but when I see a scuff mark in the rear trunk from our trip to Aspen in 1978, or the scratch on the inner fender well by the fuel filler from our trip to Florida in '76, I see this car as part of my family, surely as I appreciate the lines and wrinkles on my wife's face that I've helped put there these past 37 years. These small blemishes show the car's personality and use and are all on original surfaces, paint and finishes.

Pat, feel free to comment for our fellow members, though I know what your recommendation will be.

I'm not trying for a PCA Parade win here, but a car that presents itself as it would look after about 1-2 years use from new. I'm afraid if I seek perfection, I'll be afraid to drive it for fear of the gravel, mud and debris on the road. Also, eliminating all signs of use remove its personality and consign it to museum status.

Sorry to be so long-winded, but I'd appreciate hearing from my fellow forum members. BTW, when this car is finished, it's not going to be sold. We've had this for 30+ years, and it's like one of the family. (Pat, you can relate to that).


I've been thinking about this for several days now, aside from my other comments on this thread. And I may be wavering a little bit from my "total CW" viewpoint a little.

I've been a friend of "914 veun...whatever" - Paul, for some 30+ years. His 914 has always been nice, if not perfect (soon to be)..but it gets driven. He enoys it every year, while I live in fear of a road chip, or, as is present now - a deep oil leak that goos up my undercarriage. So, out comes the motor since the leak is coming from the number 1 "barrel-to-block" seal.
Done the removal thing before, a couple of times, but I wasn't almost 60 then - this is going to be a a challenge. No, I won't pay someone to do it - not in the spirit!

But, as Paul does, I want to enjoy my car more. I'm tired of a garage queen & want to enjoy it.

So, it wll remain original, though I'm going to put my chromies & A008's back on it, and I'm going to put it back on the streets. Yep, it will get some chips, but the paint is 27 years old - tough. When it needs to be painted again, it'll get it. I'll never sell it.

But - fair warning to all other CW's east of the Mississippi - I'm lurking & ready to compete - well, I will be in the spring!
914runnow
QUOTE (1970 Neun vierzehn @ Oct 31 2006, 07:56 AM) *
I hope youz guys don't kick me outta this forum for this, but.....

As I'm about to embark on a major refurbishment/restoration/refreshening of my '70/4, I'm experiencing "analysis paralysis". To wit, how much time, money and effort to expend on the pursuit of perfection? A brand new, complete floor pan is a given, a "must". The exterior paint and metal are surprisingly good, considering that the last time rust was encountered was in 1979, and at that point it was cut out and repaired. Most of the exterior paint, though over 30 years old now, still looks pretty good. Regardless, I'm also going to have the exterior gone down to bare metal, fix any problems that manifest themselves, and have a complete repaint of the existing, original color

Now here's were it gets muddy. I'm going to have the engine compartment taken care of, mechanically and cosmetically. But where to draw the line? For instance, the original oil bath air cleaner is all there, including the red printing on the top, but that unit isn't perfect, but it is original. Similarly, the grey intake runners are dingy and can be cleaned, but will never have the beautiful appearance of freshly painted, restored ones. The inside of the front and rear trunks are solid and rust free but have their share of nicks, scratches, a tire stain(front), and scuffs from thirty plus years of road trips and vacations. I've seen the underside of front and rear trunk lids finished to breathtaking mirror finishes, and my original finished lids were never painted from the factory to that standard. Once again, the bottom of these lids are original. A previous thread on this forum concerns the area around the fuel tank. Once again, I have a nice original finish with a few minor scratches...repaint or not?

Our good friend Pat Garvey would no doubt admonish me for not re-doing everything, but when I see a scuff mark in the rear trunk from our trip to Aspen in 1978, or the scratch on the inner fender well by the fuel filler from our trip to Florida in '76, I see this car as part of my family, surely as I appreciate the lines and wrinkles on my wife's face that I've helped put there these past 37 years. These small blemishes show the car's personality and use and are all on original surfaces, paint and finishes.

Pat, feel free to comment for our fellow members, though I know what your recommendation will be.

I'm not trying for a PCA Parade win here, but a car that presents itself as it would look after about 1-2 years use from new. I'm afraid if I seek perfection, I'll be afraid to drive it for fear of the gravel, mud and debris on the road. Also, eliminating all signs of use remove its personality and consign it to museum status.

Sorry to be so long-winded, but I'd appreciate hearing from my fellow forum members. BTW, when this car is finished, it's not going to be sold. We've had this for 30+ years, and it's like one of the family. (Pat, you can relate to that).

ONE OF OUR LOCAL GUYS DID HIS 6..
360 DEGREES INSIDE AND OUT..
I love it> c'ept it is too perfect...
Thought I would never say that..
Tons of paint (thick) every where..
HE IS NOT going to show the car...
Still love his paint job though!!
Point is..Karmann did not lay it on like that on the fours..
Now the sixes had the 911 jobs!!
So Karmann job?????
Sure keep your personallity...
Pat Garvey
QUOTE (914runnow @ Nov 10 2006, 11:43 PM) *
QUOTE (1970 Neun vierzehn @ Oct 31 2006, 07:56 AM) *

I hope youz guys don't kick me outta this forum for this, but.....

As I'm about to embark on a major refurbishment/restoration/refreshening of my '70/4, I'm experiencing "analysis paralysis". To wit, how much time, money and effort to expend on the pursuit of perfection? A brand new, complete floor pan is a given, a "must". The exterior paint and metal are surprisingly good, considering that the last time rust was encountered was in 1979, and at that point it was cut out and repaired. Most of the exterior paint, though over 30 years old now, still looks pretty good. Regardless, I'm also going to have the exterior gone down to bare metal, fix any problems that manifest themselves, and have a complete repaint of the existing, original color

Now here's were it gets muddy. I'm going to have the engine compartment taken care of, mechanically and cosmetically. But where to draw the line? For instance, the original oil bath air cleaner is all there, including the red printing on the top, but that unit isn't perfect, but it is original. Similarly, the grey intake runners are dingy and can be cleaned, but will never have the beautiful appearance of freshly painted, restored ones. The inside of the front and rear trunks are solid and rust free but have their share of nicks, scratches, a tire stain(front), and scuffs from thirty plus years of road trips and vacations. I've seen the underside of front and rear trunk lids finished to breathtaking mirror finishes, and my original finished lids were never painted from the factory to that standard. Once again, the bottom of these lids are original. A previous thread on this forum concerns the area around the fuel tank. Once again, I have a nice original finish with a few minor scratches...repaint or not?

Our good friend Pat Garvey would no doubt admonish me for not re-doing everything, but when I see a scuff mark in the rear trunk from our trip to Aspen in 1978, or the scratch on the inner fender well by the fuel filler from our trip to Florida in '76, I see this car as part of my family, surely as I appreciate the lines and wrinkles on my wife's face that I've helped put there these past 37 years. These small blemishes show the car's personality and use and are all on original surfaces, paint and finishes.

Pat, feel free to comment for our fellow members, though I know what your recommendation will be.

I'm not trying for a PCA Parade win here, but a car that presents itself as it would look after about 1-2 years use from new. I'm afraid if I seek perfection, I'll be afraid to drive it for fear of the gravel, mud and debris on the road. Also, eliminating all signs of use remove its personality and consign it to museum status.

Sorry to be so long-winded, but I'd appreciate hearing from my fellow forum members. BTW, when this car is finished, it's not going to be sold. We've had this for 30+ years, and it's like one of the family. (Pat, you can relate to that).

ONE OF OUR LOCAL GUYS DID HIS 6..
360 DEGREES INSIDE AND OUT..
I love it> c'ept it is too perfect...
Thought I would never say that..
Tons of paint (thick) every where..
HE IS NOT going to show the car...
Still love his paint job though!!
Point is..Karmann did not lay it on like that on the fours..
Now the sixes had the 911 jobs!!
So Karmann job?????
Sure keep your personallity...

"Karmann did not lay it on like that on the fours" Got that right! The 4's did have some degree of orange peel to the paint, though light. Most of theoriginal paint jobs have been polished so much through the years that it's mostly smooth.

When I had my four re-done in '79 I asked them to match the orange peel of the engine lid & to NOT repaint it. Perfect job & match. Expensive, but worth every penny. Kept it's character.
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