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dbfelzer
Hi Everyone!

This past sunday 6/10/12, I purchased my first project car. It is a "barn find" ready to come out of it's 20 year deep sleep, and i need all the input I can get!

The Facts:
1972 Porsche 914, 1.7L Sun dual carbs
No fuel pump (went out about ten years ago) or battery
Has been in a garage in SoCal since just after 1990
Was not stored properly (tank was left with gas in it, seals werent lubricated, was left resting on tires not jack stands so the tires are goners....)
Floor pans look great! front and rear trunks, cockpit, and battery tray area are 100% free of rust! the only rust spot is on the inner rocker panels, I will be able to gauge the damage this weekend.
There are some aftermarket features on the car, but the extent is unknown to me, they were from previous previous owner. So far I can see the exhaust and shifter have been tinkered with, will be able to see the full extent when the car has been stripped more.

The Plan:
AutoX track car! driving.gif
First order of business, I need the car to be rolling so it can be rolled in and out of garage when needed. To do that I want to first complete the suspension rebuild. I was thinking of putting 911sc suspension on, since it bolts right on nicely (from what i hear). I want the car to be a 5 lug set up and not a 4 lug, with bigger brake calipers, new blisteins, all new bushings, a-arms, trailing arms, a sway bar....and so on.
Along side the completion of the suspension in the next few months, I will putting a new lead acid in to test for electrical functionality all around, as well as installing the fuel pump for carbs with SS lines kit from Tangerine Racing. I will remove and THOROUGHLY clean both carbs. I have rebuilt a carb once before, it was on a 250cc kawasaki ninja R... took a little work. I am going to remove the gas tank from the car and clean the shit out of it, literally, clean all the goop that has built up form 20 years of aging gasoline. Now I was born in 1990, so help me out, was the gas from the station leaded gas at that time? will the valves have to be changed to work with unleaded gas that we now get at the pumps?

I need help with what else HAS to be done before I can fire up the engine and see what i really have to work with. Before i do any major engine/tranny work, I would like to know their current state.

The Future:
Roll cage, racing bucket seats, 5 point harness, wieght reduction all around... and what ever else is needed to compete in autox events.
I also what to weld on the 10 piece chassis reinforcement kit.
In the far future I would love to do an engine/tranny transplant, with hopefully a subbaru flat 6, but for at least the next 5 years i plan on just building up the my car with the engine it has. And an engine rebuild is in the future for the current powerplant, its just not top priority as of now...

I am currently living in Woodland Hills during the work week, temporarily relocated for an internship. but on the weekends travel back to my house in Walnut where my car is being stored and worked on, by me and good friend. So I will only be physically working on the car over the weekends but will be researching and posting here during the week!

I am posting pictures from sunday night when the 914 arrived in its new garage so you can get a visual idea of whats in store.

Like I said, any and all comments, suggestions, referrals, parts, ext... will help me on my journey ahead. Thanks!

-David beerchug.gif
glenn1
You and me sir are in the same boat on opposite sides of the country.
dbfelzer
Well at least we can help each other out when we run into the same problems! What year/setup is your car??
dbfelzer
Sunday night update after working through the weekend:

I went thought everything from the top to look for rust. The inner rocker panels will need some fixing for sure. Once i remove the door sills i can see if they will need to be completely cut off with new ones welded on or not. I was having a hard time removing the door sills though... the allen key screws holding both pieces onto the frame weren't budging. I am to the point of just drilling out the darn screws, unless someone else has a better idea. The only other two rust spots, which i found this weekend are, a, under the batter holder (very small) and b, in the middle of the lower rear crossmember (also very small).

I cant wait to get the car jacked up on all four jack stands so i can remove the whole suspension assembly and start refinishing/cleaning all the components.

I removed the carbs today, found out they are Webber Ide 40's, and they are surprisingly in very good condition too! I completely took apart one of them and cleaned every nook and crannie. And then reassembled the guy too, correctly!

Does anyone have a good plan of attack to refinish metal covered in old dried adhesive? my fire wall needs this badly. the dash, which is plastic, also needs it done. It had a carpet cover but the foam/glue is being quite feisty in some areas. For the firewall i was going to take it down with a wire brush like attachment on my drill, basically sand it off. I was hoping to do something similar on the dash except with a softer abrasive material than wire brush. Any suggestions would be helpful. I also thought of resorting to goo-gone for the dash... but seems like more time..

I do want to start fully planing the new suspension and will want a lot of input on that but i want to do a little more of my own research first. And this post is already way to long, so thanks for reading, if you got this far...

Regards,

David
Racer Chris
QUOTE (dbfelzer @ Jun 18 2012, 03:31 AM) *
...
I was having a hard time removing the door sills though... the allen key screws holding both pieces onto the frame weren't budging. I am to the point of just drilling out the darn screws, unless someone else has a better idea.
...

If you're referring to the fasteners holding the aluminum or plastic sill plates onto the steel sills, they are plastic rivets, not allen screws.
You can push the center pins thru with a small drill or steel rod, then the rivets will come out easily.
dbfelzer
QUOTE (Racer Chris @ Jun 22 2012, 09:51 AM) *
QUOTE
...
I was having a hard time removing the door sills though... the allen key screws holding both pieces onto the frame weren't budging. I am to the point of just drilling out the darn screws, unless someone else has a better idea.
...

If you're referring to the fasteners holding the aluminum or plastic sill plates onto the steel sills, they are plastic rivets, not allen screws.
You can push the center pins thru with a small drill or steel rod, then the rivets will come out easily.

OK great, I'll try that tomorrow!

Also, chris Iam going to be ordering your fuel pump with pre bent SS lines for carb set up kit, will the FP be relocated to the front using the kit?

For chris our anyone else, I want to remove the gas tank this weekend, and it's had gas sitting in it for 20 years now, so whats the best way to remove a tank full of gas??

Thanks
David
Dustin
siphon out the gas.
Racer Chris
QUOTE (dbfelzer @ Jun 22 2012, 08:16 PM) *
...
Also, chris Iam going to be ordering your fuel pump with pre bent SS lines for carb set up kit, will the FP be relocated to the front using the kit?

For chris our anyone else, I want to remove the gas tank this weekend, and it's had gas sitting in it for 20 years now, so whats the best way to remove a tank full of gas??

You have a choice of keeping the pump in the back or relocating it to the front with our SS Lines carb package.

With the car on jackstands you can disconnect a line below the engine compartment and drain into 5 gal containers.
Its not too hard to lift the tank with up to about 5 gal still in there.
If the PO had longer hoses installed under the tank it can be lifted up far enough to tilt the tank and remove the hoses without any spillage.
As long as you're replacing the hoses, just crimp them with vice grips and cut the hoses below the clamps.
dbfelzer
QUOTE (Racer Chris @ Jun 25 2012, 07:56 AM) *
QUOTE
...
Also, chris Iam going to be ordering your fuel pump with pre bent SS lines for carb set up kit, will the FP be relocated to the front using the kit?

For chris our anyone else, I want to remove the gas tank this weekend, and it's had gas sitting in it for 20 years now, so whats the best way to remove a tank full of gas??

You have a choice of keeping the pump in the back or relocating it to the front with our SS Lines carb package.

With the car on jackstands you can disconnect a line below the engine compartment and drain into 5 gal containers.
Its not too hard to lift the tank with up to about 5 gal still in there.
If the PO had longer hoses installed under the tank it can be lifted up far enough to tilt the tank and remove the hoses without any spillage.
As long as you're replacing the hoses, just crimp them with vice grips and cut the hoses below the clamps.


Thanks Chris,

I like the idea of crimping the hoses, since i will most certainly be replacing all the fuel lines anyways.
dbfelzer
Update from this past weekend.

I started resurfacing the cockpit, starting with the firewall. I grabbed a bottle of GooGone and some wire wheel attachments for my drill and started scraping away all the old adhesive. Was able to finish the firewall and started on the passenger long.

Since the wire wheeling took quite some time I didnt complete to much else. Was able to start on the dash, and removed the steering wheel and the bottom section of the dash upholstery. My roommate helped me out a little and removed the driver window guide. The car had been broken into under the PO so there was still lots of glass squares to clean up. I would like to move to lexan windows all around, but would love to also maintain the up and down functionality of the side windows for convenience.

I have some pictures of this weekends progress, but its getting late and i have work in the morning, so ill get those up soon. I want to start working out the suspension details as well, so i will definitely be posting back soon.

Thanks, and cheers
dbfelzer
Here are the pictures from this past weekend. before and after of cockpit firewall work.

-David
Racer Chris
looks like the firewall cleaned up pretty good. smile.gif
dbfelzer
QUOTE (Racer Chris @ Jun 29 2012, 05:56 AM) *
looks like the firewall cleaned up pretty good. smile.gif


Ya the Goo Gone helped out a lot! acted as a cutting fluid and made it go much smoother.
dbfelzer
alright, lets talk suspension!

Plan for suspension rebuild:
first convert to 5-lug. Eric shea from pmb performance had a forum from awhile back listing that he can take the original 4-lug trailing arms and make it a 5-lug, as well as press in new bearing and all new bushings, along with completely media blasting and re-coating the whole thing. I may have him do the same thing to the front, except not work on the a-arm.
here is the link to his forum if anyone would like to take a look:
http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?show...p;#entry1273176

Next i have been on elephant racing's website browsing their suspension upgrade kits, and so far it seems like the best kit out there, unless anyone else can point me in a better direction. For their suspension package i decided to go with their street track 1 level for component selection. For their coilover system package i went with the level 3. I am posting a picture of the cart with all the items that have been selected through these packages.

The next suspension package i found is for the a-arms and crossmember, from tarret engineering. Their 935 suspension kit is intended for coilover set ups, which is my plan.

Let me know your thoughts! thanks! thumb3d.gif

David
dbfelzer
QUOTE (Racer Chris @ Jun 29 2012, 05:56 AM) *
looks like the firewall cleaned up pretty good. smile.gif


Hey Chris, On the breather can from Tangerine, whats the pros and cons between having the top air vent or the grommet to carb air filters set up???

Also, like i said earlier i am going to order the fuel pump and ss lines kit, is there anything else i will need? like lines from the tank to the tunnel or new lines to the dual carbs?

Thanks.

David
Racer Chris
QUOTE (dbfelzer @ Jun 30 2012, 08:27 PM) *
QUOTE
looks like the firewall cleaned up pretty good. smile.gif


Hey Chris, On the breather can from Tangerine, whats the pros and cons between having the top air vent or the grommet to carb air filters set up???

Also, like i said earlier i am going to order the fuel pump and ss lines kit, is there anything else i will need? like lines from the tank to the tunnel or new lines to the dual carbs?

Thanks.

David


The strut brace you listed on the tarrett page is useless in a 914.
The 935 front suspension requires coilovers. Its a huge upgrade for a lowered race car.
To take full advantage of its benefits, the rear suspension needs major revision too.

Before you order anything from either Tarrett or Elephant, have a look at Rebel Racing.
I like their Delrin front bushing setup in particular.

I don't think the popular (weltmeister, tarrett, etc) anti-sway bars are stiff enough for a track car with wide sticky tires.
That's one of the reasons I developed my anti-sway bar kits.

In addition to the SS lines carb kit you'll need some hose and a tee for the engine compartment.
dbfelzer
So since the suspension is taking longer than anticipated smash.gif , I wont be sending in the components to Eric Shea for another 2 weeks or so...waiting for the air compressor and impact gun to arrive. But when i talked to him on the phone last week we worked out my plan of attack:
911 front struts with 3" caliper spacing, he suggested the borge inserts, anyone have a take on that?
911 hub and rotors.
Question on that, will my stock brakes fit and work for with the 911 rotor?
Front stock control arms will be media blasted, powder coated and fitted with new bushings
Rear trailing arm will be cleaned up and drilled to 5 lug, then fitted with new bearings and bushings
I believe the rear hub used will be the stock one just drilled to 5 lug as well, and then use a 911 rotor

Thats the plan for suspension as of now, everything should be sent out to him no later than the end of this month, with a 2-3 week turn around from there.

As far as wheels and rims go.... what's the largest pice of rubber i can fit on this puppy at stock, considering 15 or 16" diam..... what width can i go with?
Also where should i look for them? Most of the online sites that sell rims and wheels make you select your car, but then say there are no options for the 914... so all tips on where to look and what to look for would be great.

Thanks!!



dbfelzer
Chris, I received all the parts i ordered from you the other week. They all look great and i cant wait to put them on! I will be sure to let you know when i do.

This past weekend i did a bunch of body work on the car. The PPO wanted to put some extended sails on the pillars as you can see in the pictures above. But the shop that did the work has some bad techniques of going about it. They must of added 20lbs of bondo in the process, with a .25" thick piece of fiberglass in between all of it, just crazy! and thats not an exaggeration! i have the pictures to prove it (just not with me at the moment). When i finally got the pillars down to the original metal i noticed a seam weld going horizontally across the middle of the pillar, which scares me a little. ill be sure to get a picture of it when i go back home and i will want an opinion or two on whether or not it looks safe...

For suspension i still dont have an impact wrench and cannot remove some of the large nuts. I tried some of the ideas given to me above but all were unsuccessful....

David
jhadler
I did a quick check on the spring rates that these Von coilovers...

The level 3 package has 225# springs, mated with 21 mm torsion bars, and sway bars front and rear. I'll make this suggestion right off the bat. Don't use the rear sway bar unless you are building your transaxle with a limited slip differential. With those springs rates, adding a rear bar -will- result in wheel lift in the rear, and thus wheel -spin-.

That being said, 21mm torsion and 225# coils with a nice front bar should result in a nice balance (that's very nearly what I ran in my setup, very responsive, very neutral).

-Josh
dbfelzer
QUOTE (jhadler @ Jul 26 2012, 12:43 PM) *
I did a quick check on the spring rates that these Von coilovers...

The level 3 package has 225# springs, mated with 21 mm torsion bars, and sway bars front and rear. I'll make this suggestion right off the bat. Don't use the rear sway bar unless you are building your transaxle with a limited slip differential. With those springs rates, adding a rear bar -will- result in wheel lift in the rear, and thus wheel -spin-.

That being said, 21mm torsion and 225# coils with a nice front bar should result in a nice balance (that's very nearly what I ran in my setup, very responsive, very neutral).

-Josh


I appreciate the input! I would like to use that set up for the front, in the future though. For now i am just going to be running with stock 911 front struts (so i can have the 5 lug setup).
I have heard form a large number of 914 racers that for your first year with the car, keeping the suspension close to stock is a good game plan, and as time goes on and you get aquatinted with stock, then start adding on the mods. But the coil-overs all around will be in the far future!

-david
Racer Chris
QUOTE
Chris, I received all the parts i ordered from you the other week.
...

Oh... that was you! lol.gif
I couldn't tell from the name on the Paypal receipt.
Racer Chris
QUOTE (dbfelzer @ Jul 26 2012, 11:18 PM) *
I have heard form a large number of 914 racers that for your first year with the car, keeping the suspension close to stock is a good game plan,

Apart from budgetary constraints, that doesn't make much sense to me at all.
The stock suspension is waay tooo soofft for racing.
Sounds more like someone who wants to make sure you're slower than they are.

There are a few tried and true combinations which aren't too expensive but are so much better than using the stock pieces.
For instance, the Boge shocks are excellent for a street 914 but not much good in a race car.
The damping is too soft, and being unpressurized, the shock oil will turn to foam quickly and they'll lose effectiveness as they get hot.

For a track car I would change the springs/torsion bars, add a big front A/S bar, replace the rubber bushings with hard bushings, and install Koni or Bilstein shocks - right away, before ever turning a wheel.
It doesn't matter what your ultimate setup will be in the future. It doesn't matter if you need to upgrade within a year.
The parts are all bolt on and used parts are often available from someone going to the next level.

jhadler
I pretty much agree with Chris...

Make one -big- change. Then leave it the heck alone. Learn the car with the newer suspension. Don't go full-race, but don't leave it soggy and squishy stock. You want it responsive without swapping ends on you at the drop of a pin.

I'd say stock t-bars, 150# coils, konis or similar at all four corners, and big adjustable front sway bar. Make sure your bushings are in good condition, and get a good alignment.

The most important thing is to not muck with the set-up once you start. You'll be busy enough learning how the car behaves, and how to drive it. Don't introduce even more variables.

-Josh
dbfelzer
Those are very helpful tips guys, thanks. I will be taking all those pointers into consideration in the next few weeks when i am order all the suspension components. As for the braking, since i am going 911 5-lug struts i have the option of putting the vented rotors and 911 m-calipers on. Do you think this step up will be very advantageous?

Thanks,
david
Racer Chris
There's a trade-off to going with bigger brakes - unspring weight goes up.
With up to 205 tires, the stock brake calipers work pretty well with the right pads and a properly adjusted proportioning valve.
A flared car with wider tires will have shorter stopping distances with the 911 brakes.
dbfelzer
Ok, thats a good point. I will be starting off with 205 tires, since i have 15X6 porsche rims i plan on using. But since i could eventually go wider i am thinking i will go with the 911 brake set up!

Whats a good range for rear spring rate?? for a 1.7 semi track car...?
Racer Chris
140-180
Ninewan4
QUOTE
For a track car I would change the springs/torsion bars, add a big front A/S bar, replace the rubber bushings with hard bushings, and install Koni or Bilstein shocks - right away, before ever turning a wheel.
It doesn't matter what your ultimate setup will be in the future. It doesn't matter if you need to upgrade within a year.
The parts are all bolt on and used parts are often available from someone going to the next level.


Is Bilstein better for that setup? I've seen a lot of people recommending it. By the way, is the torsion bar with better shocks good to go even without installing sway bars?
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