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richardL
This from my Lotus board (britishspeed.com):
QUOTE
Triangle Members,

As you may have heard by now, there was an incident during our Driver’s Ed event yesterday at Carolina Motorsports Park that resulted in a fatality. The vehicle in which Tom Norby was instructing went off track and impacted a tree. Fire/Rescue and EMT responded immediately, however Tom died of his injuries at the scene.

Tom was a Carolinas Region PCA member and served as a Driver's Ed Instructor, having completed the PCA National Driver's Education Instructor training. He was 58.


and
QUOTE
I was there at CMP when this crash occurred, my girlfriend was two cars behind the incident when it happened. The car's power/driver skill/safety equipment/corner workers/safety inspections WERE NOT A FACTOR. I'll be honest, I'm a little angry to come back from the track and find this nonsense speculation on how the incident occurred.

A 911 996 had an upper radiator close clamp failure, it was a street car with the stock style spring clamps, and one partially slipped. The driver dumped coolant somewhere around Turn 8, realized he was losing fluids, and immediately drove off line, just like he was supposed to. Unfortunately, there were was a 930 following pretty close behind in the group, it was very cold that morning, and what happened was just unavoidable. Matter of fact, I've driven with the 930 driver before, he's a talented driver, and on this outing he was on his final check ride to move up to the next group. The corner workers did their jobs, the EMTs did their jobs, the 930 was a race prepped car with every piece of safety gear you can imagine. The driver in fact was completely uninjured. As near as we can assume, a tree branch must've penetrated the cockpit.

You need to keep in mind the previous day THERE WAS NOT A SINGLE INCIDENT. Not a single incident report, no car damage, just some mech failures. And that is with high horsepower cars, R comps, all different skills groups, and 28 degree temps in the morning. PCA puts on VERY SAFE events, what happened Sunday was a true freak accident.

I mean honestly, when we started running this weekend, track temps started in the upper 20s. If a fluid hits the track, and you run across that at speed, what are you supposed to do? Let's say Vince hadn't been next line, if my girlfriend had been two cars ahead, she would've hit it instead of him, and gone right off the track too. If Bob's little 914 wasn't so cold natured, he would've been the one in the trees. This is not the first time I've seen a car hit coolant before, when it happens, there just isn't a damn thing you can do, no matter how skilled you are or what car it is. Physics can be cruel.


So sad...

Richard
Brad Roberts
Whoa..

Why hold events in 28 degree weather?



B
Racer Chris
QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Mar 9 2010, 08:26 PM) *
Whoa..

Why hold events in 28 degree weather?



B

You're spoiled!
No one knows it will be that cold when the event is scheduled. In fact no one expects it to be that cold in the Carolinas at this time of year. I'm sure it warmed up considerably as the morning progressed.

I have pictures of my race car with heavy frost on it in the morning, shortly before taking to the track at an SCCA event in New Hampshire in April.
I've been on the grid at Pocono on Mother's day with snow falling.
Brad Roberts
The water would have FROZE on the track.

28?

Call the event until it warms up past freezing. I don't care what you paid for the event site. I feel 28 is not safe.


B
Trekkor
Sorry to hear this report.


KT
Racer Chris
QUOTE
The water would have FROZE on the track.

Thats unlikely.
Even though the air temp was below freezing the ground temp was not.

The incident was unfortunate but it had nothing to do with the temperature. In fact, one could speculate that the effect might have been more dramatic if the temp was warmer and the cars were already going faster.

To suggest that the event should have been delayed due to the air temp is silly Brad. You really have no notion of the fourth season do you?
In the northeast the racetracks are actually closed for 4 or more months but we don't let a little inclement weather stop us from enjoying ourselves the rest of the year.
We still drive cars even when the roads have snow and ice on them. wink.gif
Brad Roberts
I can name off at least 4 cars that have been wrecked do to ice on the tracks (this year alone) Stay home. I understand you are limited in the amount of time available to you, but is a DE really worth it? These where not experience racers like yourself who have years of doing this. These are newbies. I agree every should learn how to drive in the rain, but 28? I guess the line I draw is a little different than most.


B
john rogers
The low temps are a big factor but I am and have been amazed at how the big car organizations I.E. PCA, BMWCCA, Corvette Club, etc allow high speed follow the leader driving events with stock cars. The issue of stack parts such as hose clamps, oil filters (seals), coolant (not water), oil leaks (recent Pelican post), stock 3 point belts and other items that would never pass in vintage racing or in a race such as Grand-Am?! But, hey it is only a D.E. and they are not racing now are they? At the PCA CA Speedway race weekend a couple years ago, 7 cars were wrecked and 4 or those were totaled which to me means something is basically wrong with the organization and the rules.
Brad Roberts
QUOTE
At the PCA CA Speedway race weekend a couple years ago, 7 cars were wrecked and 4 or those were totaled which to me means something is basically wrong with the organization and the rules.


I was there.. and was standing next to the daughter of the lady who flipped the 993 and broke an ankle (standing next to her when it happened)

Today we have cars that are dumbed down and stupid fast. Too fast for some of these people (not in this case)

Want to know what her instructor said to me after he turned her loose for the day? (this coming from a multi time POC class winner) "she scares me" were his exact words. I was standing next to him and her daughter watching her come out of the banking and hit the wall and flip the car. I physically saw the bottom of her 993 with her daughter and her instructor standing with me. It sent a chill down my spine.


B
chilli
It's POC nuff said -- no one should go solo that "scares me" Parked many in my day a chief steward
Brad Roberts
He was a PCA instructor at the CA Speedway event. He raced PCA also. I honestly believe POC does a better job of *growing* drivers from their feeder series "Streets" events. I believe they call it something else now. Performance Driving Clinic??


B
Jeroen
really sad... sad.gif

but what worries me is how you can hit a tree when you go off track
I'm not familiar with the track, but it smells like bad safety design...
grantsfo
Sad but it happens. However you have higher chance being killed by lighting if you take pecautiojs and minimise risks. I have been known to skip moring sessions when tracks are cold and damp.
andys
I've never driven a PCA/POC event; do they allow you to run coolant?

Andys
Brad Roberts
The rules state that you are not allowed coolant.. BUT NOBODY enforces it..



B
john rogers
Sounds like a huge lawsuit in the works especially if the track/PCA allowed the use of "coolant" or did not check to see if only water was in the water cooled cars or as Brad said "nobody ever enforced it". I used to hate following Datsun and Alfa sedans in vintage races as they all would spit water when they got hot, usually about 2/3 the way through a run session. I would much rather have Ted's 356 spitting small nuts and bolts at me any day! Most well trained corner workers can smell coolant/antifreeze or trans fluid or engine oil even if you are not smoking enough to see it.
Brad Roberts
It wasn't until 09 that POC started checking cutoff switches to make sure they where properly installed!!


B
Racing916
QUOTE
The rules state that you are not allowed coolant.. BUT NOBODY enforces it..



B


running coolant depends on the region holding the event at least here on the east coast. Every year I see 944's(most often) blowing a line and dumping coolant over the track, sometimes collecting the wall or others.

I agree with Chris low temperature are common for track events in the northeast.

Sad news I feel so sorry for his family and the driver, I can't imagine.
J P Stein
I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.
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