IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
3 Pages V   1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Man sues Porsche over blown engine, ..or, a lawyer buys a used car out of warranty
Ray Mital
post Jul 28 2008, 12:41 PM
Post #1


Cali...the new addition
****

Group: Admin
Posts: 4,139
Joined: December 12, 2005
From: Northern New Jersey
Member No.: 5,268



Link to Northern Jersey Newspaper

not a great read, but still an interesting article.
a couple quotes below:

The suit says Noble's mechanic inspected the car and found antifreeze in the engine oil.

Noble seeks damages and legal fees and wants the court to force Porsche to recall the vehicles and replace all defective engines.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Brad Roberts
post Jul 28 2008, 12:58 PM
Post #2


914 GOD
********

Group: Members
Posts: 55,867
Joined: December 24, 2002
From: Alta Loma, CA
Member No.: 8



Too much time on his hands.


B
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tronporsche
post Jul 28 2008, 06:39 PM
Post #3


Member
**

Group: Subscriber
Posts: 377
Joined: January 15, 2008
From: california
Member No.: 14,917



Those first two readers' comments on that site hit it on the dot. But, if Porsche knew in the begining this was a defect in their car, they should have done a recall and fixed it the year the model came out and the problem was discovered. This is the reason it is a scary thought to buy a expensive Porsche, unless you are a mechanic or have a lot of cash to blow. I'll stick with my "poor mans Porsche" and be happy (IMG:http://www.914club.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/icon22_2.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
J P Stein
post Jul 28 2008, 07:58 PM
Post #4


Drivelmeister
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,980
Joined: December 30, 2002
From: Vancouver, WA
Member No.: 45



There are so many flaws in the 986/996 engines that Porsche's next motor is going back to something similar to the old style engine....water cooled, of course and wet sump. I also hear the GT2-3-TT-Cup motors are history....too heavy, big & expensive. (IMG:http://www.914club.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Demick
post Jul 28 2008, 08:37 PM
Post #5


Ernie made me do it!
***

Group: Benefactors
Posts: 2,238
Joined: February 6, 2003
Member No.: 257




Dude buys a 7 year old used car with over 50K miles, and expects it to be warrantied for what, forever?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
clausy
post Jul 28 2008, 09:43 PM
Post #6


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 403
Joined: April 22, 2008
From: London, UK
Member No.: 15,655



biggest mistake i ever made was buying a 996. i switched from an M Coupe 'because I needed space for the kids'. that M coupe was the best car I ever owned (sorry to have to admit that here but damn it was fun). I spent more $$ in 2 years fixing up a used 996 than I did on the whole 914. Coolant leaks (yes even the porsche engineers were confused by the whole coolant thing - what is that water in the engine?) and a blown cylinder head. it was a 2000. what a POS, seriously it put me off porsche for life - the carbon fiber craked up and the interior looked worse than a cheapo Kia. Thats why I bought went back to VDubs :-) I heart my GTi and the 914 brings smiles all around in a whole new way. i'm sure, at least i hope the 997's are better.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ericread
post Jul 29 2008, 02:40 PM
Post #7


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 949
Joined: April 26, 2007
From: Irvine, Ca (the OC)
Member No.: 8,467



QUOTE
Dude buys a 7 year old used car with over 50K miles, and expects it to be warrantied for what, forever?


A design defect can be considered differently than a warranty issue. Where a warranty "warrants" a product for useful service throughout it's stated life span, a design defect indicates that the manufacturer, with knowledge of one or more specific defects in design, continued to make a product with this known defect. Additionally, I believe the the article makes the claim that even though the manufacturer know of these specific defects, it was not disclosed to potential buyers.

There's no doubt these engines had specific defects, but the manufacturer will probably make a claim that the engines, regardless of the defect, continued in useful service for their stated life span (the warranty period). I believe the class action will claim that these engines would be expected by the buyers of the product to last a considerable time longer than their warranty period, and that by not disclosing these defects, the manufacturer was unjustly enriched (as they were sold at a higher value than they would have been if it was disclosed the engines had a limited life expectancy).

If Porsche had sold the cars with the understanding the engines were disposable after 4 years, I'd be willing to bet the price would have been somewhat lower. An orignial owner may have had a better case for damages than a resale buyer as the original buyer paid top dollar and had specific expectations for length of drivability and resale value. The resale buyer would usually have the responsibility on him/her to determine the condition of the car prior to making the purchase.

All in all, it should be a pretty interesting lawsuit.


Eric Read (IMG:http://www.914club.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
carr914
post Jul 29 2008, 11:00 PM
Post #8


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 930
Joined: February 2, 2004
From: Tampa,FL
Member No.: 1,623



Guy doesn't stand a chance. Used car, probably DE'd and abused, out of warranty. Porsche has Deep pockets with lots of Lawyers.

T.C.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
J P Stein
post Jul 29 2008, 11:14 PM
Post #9


Drivelmeister
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,980
Joined: December 30, 2002
From: Vancouver, WA
Member No.: 45



QUOTE
Guy doesn't stand a chance. Used car, probably DE'd and abused, out of warranty. Porsche has Deep pockets with lots of Lawyers.

T.C.

Remember "discovery". Since they replaced engines under warranty there is a record of all of them and a record of all RMS failures, cylinder shifting, failures of "repairs"......it will be ugly.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tshih914
post Jul 29 2008, 11:55 PM
Post #10


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 185
Joined: July 17, 2005
From: central NJ
Member No.: 4,426



FUCH DISCOVERY! These assholes who sue companies like Porsche just line themselves up and make themselves rich off of the future consumer of Porsches. Where else but in USA can one sue without repercussions for supposed faults of other party without bearing some personal responsibility and doing due diligence (when buying a used car). Caveate emptor? Porsche if they are forced to pay damages or do a recall will pass the expense to new future Porsche buyers. Why do these people think they are ENTITLED (is there a Constitutional right to expect all products to be perfect and idiot proof?) to a perfect Porsche product. All new models have developmental issues and Porsche is the only company that gives unlimited mileage warranties covering major drive train components during the first 2 years. If you drive the car every day and often then you should experience some problem which will be covered under warranty. It does no car good to be sitting in the garage like an athlete on a couch whose heart goes bad with fat and lack of exercise. The lawyers are just legal robbers who rob in your name and the real victims are everyone else who likes and need these products which are not fool-proof.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tshih914
post Jul 30 2008, 12:04 AM
Post #11


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 185
Joined: July 17, 2005
From: central NJ
Member No.: 4,426



Also I wholeheartedly agree with the 2 comments left by the readers of that Northen NJ newspaper at the end of the article. We need tort reform and an end to class action suits! Lawyers should get paid exactly what the winners of the suits get and not a penny more. (IMG:http://www.914club.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/hanged.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Brad Roberts
post Jul 30 2008, 03:26 AM
Post #12


914 GOD
********

Group: Members
Posts: 55,867
Joined: December 24, 2002
From: Alta Loma, CA
Member No.: 8



Yes they are (in some cases)

QUOTE
The lawyers are just legal robbers who rob in your name and the real victims are everyone else who likes and need these products which are not fool-proof.



B
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
914 Engine Surge...
post Jul 30 2008, 09:02 AM
Post #13


914 Engine Surgeon
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,474
Joined: August 31, 2003
From: Aircooled Heaven USA
Member No.: 1,095



The 986 and 996 engines do have significant issues, but they are a great engine to be re-designed by a team like ours..

The engines have 11 significant issues that can kill them at less than 30-50K miles and all of them were Porsche's mistakes.. The design isn't as bad as the application and materials.

They tried to save money and make money, but what they ended up doing was only caring about the original purchaser and the car making its way through the warranty period...

We are wide open with Boxster engine development these days, as you can see here
www.flat6innovations.com
The IMS and cylinder breakage issues have been resolved and big ore performance engines are now being created, up to 2.9 liters from the 2.5/ 2.7 base.

BTW- We have some pretty good evidence that one engine that was taken from an all original one owner Boxster was factory rebuilt and placed into a BRAND NEW car in 1999!! The owner never had any work done on the engine since the day the car was new, but upon tear down it had all the same details as the "factory rebuilt" engines we have torn down...

With as many problems as these engines had, I can't believe that Porsche didn't see a class action lawsuit at some point...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Paul Illick
post Jul 30 2008, 09:18 AM
Post #14


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 341
Joined: August 25, 2004
From: Houston, TX
Member No.: 2,618



Great, Jake, you've positively identified 11 "Porsche design mistakes"? And you "have evidence"? I'm sure you're looking forward to the depositions.

QUOTE
The lawyers are just legal robbers who rob in your name and the real victims are everyone else who likes and need these products which are not fool-proof.


Yeah, except if you remove any fear of recourse then there's no reason for any manufacturer to be especially responsible about their products. You saw twenty some cigarette company CEO's stand up before Congress and swear they didn't think cigarette smoking caused health problems. You saw Enron create the California energy crisis, then blame California for it. BP ignoring safety regulations even while workers are killed in one plant after another. Pharmaceutical companies hiding negative test results that could jeopardize their bestselling products. And so on ad nauseum.

You may not like lawyers, and that's your prerogative, but there isn't anyone else keeping corporations from robbing you even more directly than the way you say the lawyers are doing now. Or worse, flat out kill you. Government isn't going to stop them, they're getting their big campaign contributions from those same big companies. And think about it: isn't it usually the little guy who can't afford the lawyers to fight the big company who has indeed screwed him? If you take away lawsuits there is literally no way left for the little guy to fight a big corporation. Do you think once there's nothing holding them back they're going to suddenly turn into good corporate citizens? Of course not, their bottom line will always trump ethics. There has to be some forum, some means of recourse for the little guy, some way to get to their bottom line or we're all really REALLY screwed. Jake's comment above, "I can't believe that Porsche didn't see a class action lawsuit at some point... " is probably the only pressure that Porsche would ever have to do the right thing.

So maybe you could suggest a viable alternative? I can guarantee "Just Say No" isn't going to work.

And no, I am not a lawyer. Nor do I play one on TV.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
0396
post Jul 30 2008, 09:55 AM
Post #15


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 329
Joined: October 14, 2003
From: L.A. Calif
Member No.: 1,245



QUOTE
FUCH DISCOVERY! These assholes who sue companies like Porsche just line themselves up and make themselves rich off of the future consumer of Porsches. Where else but in USA can one sue without repercussions for supposed faults of other party without bearing some personal responsibility and doing due diligence (when buying a used car). Caveate emptor? Porsche if they are forced to pay damages or do a recall will pass the expense to new future Porsche buyers. Why do these people think they are ENTITLED (is there a Constitutional right to expect all products to be perfect and idiot proof?) to a perfect Porsche product. All new models have developmental issues and Porsche is the only company that gives unlimited mileage warranties covering major drive train components during the first 2 years. If you drive the car every day and often then you should experience some problem which will be covered under warranty. It does no car good to be sitting in the garage like an athlete on a couch whose heart goes bad with fat and lack of exercise. The lawyers are just legal robbers who rob in your name and the real victims are everyone else who likes and need these products which are not fool-proof.



This hit home!!! I don't care if the car get used or not. If they build and promote a product, one should expect some usage out of it. Porsche hides behind all their lawyers unless it's broadcasted all over the news wave, I would tend to agree they will not do any thing about said claim. How do I know, well there were about 20 of us that order 996 tt, GT2's with Gen1 PCCBs. They advertised the rotor as race ready , even showing a red hot rotor. For those that follow 996's understand that Gen1 PCCB will deteriorate if used on the track... now I have a car with Gen1.... Was going to track this... knowing that this was misrepresented, one would think Porsche would step-up and replace all Gen 1 PCCBs with Gen 11. No way... I ask my self some times, I WAS A FOOL in ordering those PCCBs...then it came as 'standard' equip with car. Good thing I have another car to track. FYI a new set of PCCB are almost the cost of a new small Toyota.. This turned me off, 'was' going to order a new Porsche Truck SUV.. Ended up and switch to Audi S/4 Avant. My .02 cents.. Porsche did me over once and that was it. My 2nd thoughts are: They promoted the PCCBs as race rotors BUT they fall apart at the track- well I don't remember signing any papers stating that I was going to be their 'test pilot' on those Gen 1's.
Oh yes we were going to take them to court.. but we could never get any one to take this case on... they have a pretty deep pockets!


Brad, long time no talk.. hope all is well - 1st posting here on your new site (IMG:http://www.914club.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ericread
post Jul 30 2008, 10:13 AM
Post #16


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 949
Joined: April 26, 2007
From: Irvine, Ca (the OC)
Member No.: 8,467



QUOTE
Great, Jake, you've positively identified 11 "Porsche design mistakes"? And you "have evidence"? I'm sure you're looking forward to the depositions.

QUOTE
The lawyers are just legal robbers who rob in your name and the real victims are everyone else who likes and need these products which are not fool-proof.


Yeah, except if you remove any fear of recourse then there's no reason for any manufacturer to be especially responsible about their products. You saw twenty some cigarette company CEO's stand up before Congress and swear they didn't think cigarette smoking caused health problems. You saw Enron create the California energy crisis, then blame California for it. BP ignoring safety regulations even while workers are killed in one plant after another. Pharmaceutical companies hiding negative test results that could jeopardize their bestselling products. And so on ad nauseum.

You may not like lawyers, and that's your prerogative, but there isn't anyone else keeping corporations from robbing you even more directly than the way you say the lawyers are doing now. Or worse, flat out kill you. Government isn't going to stop them, they're getting their big campaign contributions from those same big companies. And think about it: isn't it usually the little guy who can't afford the lawyers to fight the big company who has indeed screwed him? If you take away lawsuits there is literally no way left for the little guy to fight a big corporation. Do you think once there's nothing holding them back they're going to suddenly turn into good corporate citizens? Of course not, their bottom line will always trump ethics. There has to be some forum, some means of recourse for the little guy, some way to get to their bottom line or we're all really REALLY screwed. Jake's comment above, "I can't believe that Porsche didn't see a class action lawsuit at some point... " is probably the only pressure that Porsche would ever have to do the right thing.

So maybe you could suggest a viable alternative? I can guarantee "Just Say No" isn't going to work.

And no, I am not a lawyer. Nor do I play one on TV.


(IMG:http://www.914club.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Well said!!! Without checks-and-balances, the system does not work. What's good for a corporation is not necessarily good for the consumer, as demonstrated above. And our government has demonstrated time and time again that they are not on the side of the consumer.

These class-action suits are many times the only recourse the consumer has to hold a corporation accountable. Before you lobby to remove this ability, try to fully understand the consequences of removing the last true check-and-balance tool we consumers have available.

Eric Read
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
914 Engine Surge...
post Jul 30 2008, 11:08 AM
Post #17


914 Engine Surgeon
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,474
Joined: August 31, 2003
From: Aircooled Heaven USA
Member No.: 1,095



I certainly care nothing about suining anyone or ever walking into a Court Room.. Never been there and don't want to go, as a Plantiff or Defendant..

Its very clear that Porsche didn't give the 986/96 engines proper testing time in real time situations.. Most failures we have seen came while Women were driving the cars and from vehicles with great maintenance records. They just fail with no warning, for no reason with either an IMS failure or a D chunk failure.

Some cranage...
30K miles on a cam sprocket....
(IMG:http://www.flat6innovations.com/25boxster30kmiteardownjul08/slides/DSC_0225.JPG)

D chunk failure from a 3.4 996 engine..
(IMG:http://www.flat6innovations.com/cylinderfailures/slides/996_34_004.JPG)

Same failure from the same 30K mile engine with the worn cam sprocket above..

(IMG:http://www.flat6innovations.com/cylinderfailures/slides/DSC_0003.JPG)

The factory used Blue paint to mark problematic areas of engines that failed inspections.. So why was thins engine put into service??? It's cylinder sleeve is failing and had been dislodged by .060, ready for a D chunk failure.
(IMG:http://www.flat6innovations.com/cylinderfailures/slides/DSC_0006.JPG)

There are lots of other examples... It has been a real challenge to get as far as we have with this program, especally when the parts to assemble the engine can't be bought and neither can the tols.. We have even made our own main bearings and rod bearings as well as assembly tools (in the process of that now!)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ericread
post Jul 30 2008, 12:45 PM
Post #18


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 949
Joined: April 26, 2007
From: Irvine, Ca (the OC)
Member No.: 8,467



Can you say "Jake Raby, Expert Witness"?

Since you've posted these pictures on this site, they are easily searched via GOOGLE. Expect a knock on your door from a friendly attorney soon...

(IMG:http://www.914club.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)

Eric Read
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
clemsonc
post Jul 30 2008, 01:04 PM
Post #19


forever newbie
**

Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: June 5, 2004
From: San Jose, CA
Member No.: 2,159



Shit... I just a bought an used Boxster ('99 with 60K miles) last month.
I don't know how should I drive the car anymore. (IMG:http://www.914club.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
914 Engine Surge...
post Jul 30 2008, 03:26 PM
Post #20


914 Engine Surgeon
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,474
Joined: August 31, 2003
From: Aircooled Heaven USA
Member No.: 1,095



Hell yeah, drive it till it scatters and then call me..

The harder you drive it the less likely a failure will occur!!!

I run mine in first and second gear against the rev limiter 10 times a day TRYING to kill it!!! No dice yet, but iot does have a little rattle at start up now.

Keep it serviced and drive it hard and DO NOT use Mobil 1!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: August 14, 2018 - 11:46 AM